Friday, March 19, 2010

Testimonials

View subject's testimonials and post your own, here.

140 comments:

  1. March 30, 2010
    Thanks so much for discovering the hanging technique to repair an arthritic shoulder I have been suffering with since 1999. I have cancelled the shoulder replacement surgery. Your scheme is working for me, I have been able to quit the Aleve and still have movement without pain. It hurts like hell when I do the first 20 second hang, but then it gets easier by the 3rd hang. I do get some odd looks at the gym but it works. Can’t thank you enough. I like “monkeying” around.

    Bud Roeser
    Wheaton, IL

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  3. It’s been 6 months since I began using the hanging exercise. At first I could not reach the overhead bar and had to stand on a small stool to do so. I also could not put my full weight onto it. I would grab the bar and let my knees sag until part of my weight was stretching my arms. These early exercises were quite painful, as Dr. Kirsch said they would be. What also proved true was his prediction that the exercises would get easier and less painful over time.
    It is now December 2010 and my shoulders are %100. In each exercise session I can hang repeatedly from my overhead bar, lifting all of my weight for about 30 sec at a time without pain. My shoulder no longer bothers me when I sleep and my range of motion is normal. I've also incorporated the recommended lifting exercises and they are helping the process along.
    It has been such a relief to be able to manage my own treatment. I am extremely grateful to Dr. Kirsch for providing me with the method to restore my shoulder to health without surgical intervention. Not only have I been spared great expense, but this treatment is less risky, less invasive, less damaging, and seems to be a more durable solution.

    -Mike

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  4. Three years ago I sustained a rather severe shoulder injury while downhill skiing. It consisted of an anterior dislocation, fractured tuberosity, complete tears of 3 rotator cuff tendons and an injured bicep tendon that was reinserted. After standard PT I regained a fair degree of function but with limited strength. This was acceptable however I would develop repeated episodes of inflammation or impingement. At this point I ran into John at the local Y and bought his book.

    Since starting his program of hanging and shoulder exercises I have not had any recurrences and strength is improving somewhat. This has allowed me to participate in my favorite activities of road biking, golf and competitive masters swimming. Since the injury I have earned several top ten national rankings in swimming mainly because I have been able to train consistently due to the absence of recurrent injury.

    -George, M.D.

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  5. I began strength and flexibility training with Fit Quest almost 3 years ago. At the beginning my shoulders and spine were extremely tight, were restricted in range of motion, and generally ached or hurt most of the time. After 3 years of strength and flexibility training, my shoulder and spine strength have improved 50 ‐ 80% by my estimation. Stevens Point’s Fit Quest owner/trainer, Andie Crotteau started me on a hanging regimen as part of my twice weekly strength training workouts. The hanging exercises have increased my shoulder range of motion and allowed my lower spine to become more flexible. I believe that flexibility training (including hanging regimens) must be coupled with strength training to increase and maintain range of motion and decrease the effect of injuries that occur in day to day activities. My current regimen includes daily stretching and hanging exercises and twice weekly strength training. I will continue this regimen for the rest of my life.

    -David

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  6. Thanks so much for discovering the hanging technique to repair an arthritic shoulder I have been suffering with since 1999. I have cancelled the shoulder replacement surgery. Your scheme is working for me, I have been able to quit the Aleve and still have movement without pain. It hurts like hell when I do the first 20 second hang, but then it gets easier by the 3rd hang. I do get some odd looks at the gym but it works. I can’t thank you enough. I like “monkeying” around.

    -Bud

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  7. In December of 2007 I went to an orthopedic doctor because I was experiencing severe pain in my right shoulder. There was nothing traumatic that I could recall that caused the pain, it simply came on over a 3 to four month period. It was to the point that I could not raise my right arm to shoulder height.
    The doctor ordered an MRI which revealed a tear in my right rotator cuff, bone spurs and a cyst. The recommendation was to perform surgery. I delayed that decision and instead went to another doctor, who confirmed the diagnosis. I did not want to have surgery. He suggested alternatives but cautioned that surgery may need to be done. He put me through a number of treatments called friction therapy. In addition, ultra sound was applied periodically. Finally he prescribed a series of weight lifting and stretching exercises to strengthen muscles around the shoulder and regain flexibility.
    Over the next six to seven months my shoulder progressively got better. My pain level was down about 65 percent and I had regained about 65 percent flexibility, but I had hit a wall. I had a chance meeting with Dr. Kirsch. In the course of our conversations I explained my ailment and where I was at in recovery. He recommended I try hanging from a bar to compliment my other treatment. He was kind enough to send me research he had done with instructions on how to perform the exercise. I started that immediately and worked it into my daily routine of exercise. This really helped break through the wall I had hit in my recovery. Today I have virtually full use of my shoulder/arm and I am pain free. I play golf, tennis and do all of the other things I did prior to 12/07. The additional exercise Dr. Kirsch recommended was a big part of my recovery.
    Tom Zavadsky Stevens Point, WI
    “My left shoulder has caused me pain for the past 35 years. I have tried remedies including physical therapy, but nothing seemed to relieve the pain. Dr. Honl met Dr. Kirsch, and shared his book with our staff. After reading it, I hoped I finally had a solution to my shoulder problem. I started hanging for a few seconds a day, working to increase to one minute. I’m happy to say that I’ve found relief for my pain and now hang religiously each day.

    -Janice

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  8. As a 68‐year‐old age group triathlete I want to remain competing as long as possible. Over ten years ago I underwent decompression surgery on my left shoulder. A year later I was experiencing the same problem in my right shoulder. I talked to Dr. John Kirsch and he suggested I hang from a bar for 30 seconds a day before swimming. Within a month the pain went away, I remain pain free and am still competing. I am grateful to Dr. Kirsch for his advice.

    -Stephen

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  9. John, I have two older brothers who have suffered severe shoulder pain over the years. After many years of stiff and painful shoulders myself I learned of Dr. Kirsch’s simple method to alleviate shoulder pain from a friend. I have only been “ hanging out” as I put it for a few weeks but have much less pain already. I have been able to stop taking pain pills to sleep at night and have a better range of motion. Such a simple technique to produce so much relief. Thanks so much.
    Sincerely, Thomas

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  10. I was in a car accident 8 1/2 years ago. Since that time I have used chiropractic care, massage, acupuncture, physical therapy, & exercise to help relieve my pain. Since beginning the hanging exercise 9 months ago I have gained greater range of motion, have far less pain & less numbness & tingling in my arms. I have also noticed a decrease in headaches & ringing in my ears.

    I am a certified personal trainer. At my studio we have all of our clients doing the hanging & have noticed significant improvement in their range of motion & strength in their shoulders.
    I recommend this to anyone with shoulder, neck or back issues.

    Thank you Dr. Kirsch!!”
    -Andie

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  11. After experiencing pain and loss of mobility in my shoulder, I visited my doctor. X‐rays revealed the start of a frozen shoulder. Two weeks of medication did not help. Before visiting the doctor again for the next step of more tests, I was advised to try hanging first. Two weeks of hanging cured my condition, and I required no further treatment. Now, when I feel tightness or pain creeping in again, I just resume my hanging exercise, and relief comes quickly.

    -Nancy

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  12. I had suffered from a sore left shoulder for a couple of years. My Doctor prescribed some muscle relaxers that helped a bit but only for a little while. I didn’t like the side effects of the pills he prescribed. A friend suggested that I visit a Chiropractor. Some of the pain went away for a little while, but after two or three days and I had to return for more treatments at $35.00 per visit. I went for about eight months, with no improvement until Dr. John Kirsch suggested that I try hanging by my arms from something overhead. This was a wonderful suggestion! After a couple of days most of the pain had gone away. After a couple of weeks the pain was completely gone. Simple, easy and free! Wonderful.
    "Thank you Dr. Kirsch. “

    Sincerely, Jonathan

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  13. My name is Dale Schroeder, I was having a lot of pain in my right shoulder. The pain was so bad I couldn’t pull my compound bow back. I decided to go to an orthopedic Dr. They did an MRI and the results were a torn rotator cuff. They said I needed surgery as soon as possible. It was my busy season so I was going to have to put it off until Sept or Oct. I believe this was May 2006. Sometime during the next month or two I ran into Dr. Kirsch at the fishing dock. As we were talking, I told him about my shoulder problem, he said he didn’t think I needed surgery. He told me I should put up a bar in my basement and hang from it as long as I could, he said it would hurt and it did. He said after that I should get two five pound weights and lift them from the side of my body up over my head. In a matter of a few days my shoulder was feeling better. It wasn’t very long and the pain was gone and still is. I can pull my compound bow again and have no pain in my shoulder. As I am writing this it’s bow season 2009. I have told a lot of people about Dr. Kirsch’s method. In my experience Dr. Kirsch’s cure was a lot better than the alternative.

    Thanks Dr. Kirsch,
    Dale

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  14. I started having shoulder pain over a year ago after working with a home exercise program that involved a lot of pushups and other shoulder work. The shoulder pain became so intense that I could not even sleep at night without lying on my back or holding my arm and shoulder in a certain position. I went for physical therapy and was referred through the physical therapist to an orthopedic surgeon. Through a combination of the PT and, eventually, my first cortisone injection, my shoulder felt like it "healed". Still, I stayed away from the pushups and continued with the physical therapy, not wanting to go through the pain again.
    As circumstances would have it, I was overdue for my tetanus shot, and had that done within the first month or so after my "recovery". Within the next few weeks after the tetanus shot, my shoulder pain began to return. I eventually returned to the orthopedic surgeon and he gave me another cortisone shot and told me I needed to consider an MRI to determine the amount of damage.

    The second cortisone shot did not help as much as the first, and eventually I went for the MRI. The orthopedic surgeon I was seeing looked at the results of the MRI and informed me I should consider surgery ASAP since I definitely had a tear of my rotator cuff. He said he could not guarantee the surgery would help, but it would be my best chance of improving things.

    I went for a second opinion and the second surgeon said, in his opinion, the rotator cuff was completely torn and surgery would not help. He said in about 9 years or so, I would likely develop arthritis in the shoulder and a complete shoulder replacement would be necessary.
    A colleague of mine was familiar with Dr Kirsch's therapy and had been encouraging me to give it a try during this whole ordeal. When I first tried it, it was so uncomfortable I was convinced it couldn't be helping. After speaking directly to Dr Kirsch, he reassured me this was normal by virtue of the fact that hanging from the bar was stretching and loosening everything up and this would be naturally uncomfortable at first.
    I went back and performed the exercises religiously every other day and have been amazed at the results. I can pretty much sleep comfortably in any position at this point, and although I can feel the shoulder's not perfect, I'm amazed at how close I've returned to normal function. Used to be I couldn't pull my arm through the sleeve of a shirt or coat without having intense pain. It's been several months now and I continue to try to get the exercises in every other day.
    For anyone considering more invasive therapy or who is frustrated with the results of their PT, etc., I encourage you to give this a try. If your results are anything like mine, you won't be disappointed.

    -Leroy

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  15. Experiencing almost paralyzing pain shooting and emanating from my shoulder, I finally and begrudgingly went to the local clinic where I saw an expert in sports injury. I had been being knocked down, tackled, swinging at a little white ball with a big stick, trying also to hit a tennis ball etc. etc. etc. I was told of the suspected tear and was told surgery should be scheduled ASAP, at which time I left to think it over. At this point I contacted Dr. Kirsch. To make a point quickly, he told me to go “hang” from the rafters in my garage & I did. Now, I have no pain at all. Ever. I feel remorse for the multitudes who undergo the scalpel. Thank you Dr. Kirsch. You need to go on CNN, MSNBC, FOXNEWS etc. Tell the world!
    - Len

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  16. I knew Dr Kirsch, and of his hanging method before I had any shoulder pain. When shoulder pain began, I hung, and the pain went away. I hang 4-5 repetitions for about 10-15 seconds each, 3-4 times/ week now, and have not experienced any shoulder pain since! At 47, having not played softball for several years, I'm still throwing out runners from the outfield in softball! What I need now Doc is advice for my wretched hamstrings!!

    ~William Harlow

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  17. I have always loved swimming and swam competitively during high school. I continued to swim as an adult but became unable to swim 2 or 3 years ago because of shoulder pain and weakness that gradually increased over a few months. I did some PT for several months that helped somewhat, but I was still unable to swim laps. I became discouraged and quit doing the PT exercises.

    A few months ago, I saw a neighbor hanging from a tree in her front yard. I was curious and asked her what she was doing. She introduced me to Dr. Kirsch's book and was kind enough to let me borrow it. I began doing the shoulder hang in the hope of being able to swim again, sleep without being bothered by my shoulder and not have it hurt during dance.

    I have been doing the hanging exercise for a few months now, about 8 repetitions at 20 seconds each. I only manage about 2 or 3 times each week, but that has been effective for me because both shoulders have stopped hurting, and I have an increased range of motion. I am so grateful for such a simple exercise that has had such a profound effect. Please spread the word to PT's and other doctors!

    Thank you so much. I am so grateful for the feeling of "new" shoulders I have for my 50-year-old body!

    Christine Weddle

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  18. The hanging does wonders for my shoulder as well. But whenever I try the exercises found in Dr. Kirsch's book the next day my shoulder is extremely stiff and painful. Does anyone else experience this?

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  19. Over time, with remodelling of the tissues in the rotator cuff and CA arch, stengthening of the rotator cuff tendons and muscles, these tissues will "toughen" up and the next day pain will abate. It requires many months to come to full reconditioning of the shoulder. Patience and persistence is required.

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  20. Dear Dr. Kirsch,

    I would like to share with you my positive experience with hanging. I am a 70 year old woman.

    I have always been an athlete and expect my shoulder problem may be associated with decades of tennis, downhill and cross-country skiing.

    I have no pain in my left shoulder. But over the past 5 years I have had progressively greater pain in my right shoulder, to the point I was taking non steroidal anti inflammatory pain pills, for example, before cross-country skiing. I was scheduled for resurfacing surgery in January 2011. Instead, I started hanging and lifting 1 pound weights and was able to decrease pain medicine and stopped it altogether by summer! I cross-country skied a lot over the Holidays just passed and never needed any pain medicine.

    While traveling last year I missed some days hanging, but have now found ways to hang most places most of the time and look forward to longer hangs and heavier weights.

    Thank you for your help.

    Sincerely,

    Older and wiser and healing

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  21. Five years ago, I had such severe pain in my right shoulder that I could not lift my right arm up to my chest. I had tried ice, heat, and even saw a chiropractor with no relief. I went to see an orthopedic surgeon who wanted to operate in a couple of days, which I really did not want. That same day I saw Doctor John Kirsch while I was out shopping and told him about my shoulder problem and what the surgeon had recommended. Doctor Kirsch asked me if I would be willing to try a procedure that he had been working on. Being as I had a lot of faith in Doctor Kirsch because he had repaired a broken ankle I had a few years earlier, I was willing to try anything before surgery.

    Doctor Kirsch explained that it was a hanging exercise technique for ailing shoulders. It is an overhead hanging traction exercise. I followed his instructions and put up an overhead metal bar between two beams in my garage. When I first started, it was painful just getting my right arm up that high. I had to stand on a chair at first, as I could not let my full body weight hang alone. As I kept working on the exercise, I was able to put more and more weight on the bar. Within two full weeks, I was able to let my full body weight hang without the use of the chair. I then proceeded on the next step and started lifting dumbbell weights. I started with two-pound weights and worked up to ten-pound weights. At the same time, I also continued with the overhead hanging traction exercise. At the same time I had the shoulder pain I also had constant pain in the muscle between both shoulders. Not only did this hanging exercise technique help my shoulder it also relieved the pain between my shoulders.

    I continue to use this exercise technique as it feels good and helps keep me loose. I have had no further pain in my right shoulder. Not only did this exercise technique help my shoulder it saved me from major surgery and a lot of rehab.

    I have and still do recommend this technique to other people who have shoulder problems.

    Rodney M. Sobczak

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  22. Feb 8, 2012

    Sometime over a year ago, my right shoulder began to hurt a lot, and I lost a lot of range of motion with my right arm.
    Typically, I ignore such problems, and eventually they go away.
    Last summer, I realized it wasn't going away. Instead, the pain was waking me up in the middle of the night. I couldn't sleep on my right side. I couldn't grab high things with my right hand.
    Finally I was forced to acknowledge I had a problem, so I began researching it online, and finally concluded I must have some degree of torn rotator cuff, perhaps from from sleeping on that side or perhaps from doing too many pushups.
    I tried other books and their shoulder exercises helped relieve the pain temporarily, but were no solution.
    Finally I found this one, and I'm grateful.
    It's a short book, and much of the material consists of testimonials, to fill up space.
    The actual technique consists of doing two things, one essential and the other supportive of the first.
    Fortunately I was able to find a playground in my neighborhood with a swing set with a bar I could use, and I began hanging nearly every day.
    The first time, it was some of the worst pain I'd ever felt. Prepare to hurt a lot at first.
    But don't stop. The more I did it, the less pain I felt during that period, and certainly the less pain I felt for the remainder of the day and night.
    Now I'm practically pain free. I still have some motion limits, which I believe is because I no longer hang regularly.

    Richard Stooker

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    Replies
    1. so are you pain-free now? Did you keep on hanging? How long did it take for you to get back to doing pushups?

      Delete
  23. After being thrown from a horse, I would experience bouts of back pains, which would be relieved by several trips to a chiropractor. Now, as soon as I start to feel discomfort I hang...no more trips to the chiropractor. Thank You Dr. Kirsch!

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  24. I've been using the hanging bar for about 6 months and my shoulders have never felt so good.

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  25. I like to hang about 45 seconds each day & it removes practically all of my shoulder issues. As a kid I enjoyed climbing trees and playing on the monkey bars and I am thrilled to find that these are exercises are recommended by a board certified orthopedic surgeon.

    Matt Donovan

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  26. I just found this and have been suffering with my shoulder for a couple of years. I have another issue as well and was wondering if there is a way to modify the hanging technique to adjust for the inability to use a hand? It's both shoulders in my case. It's the stretching right? How about someone pulling the arm slowly?

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    1. There is a very good solution to your problem. When you attempt to hang, try using weight lifting straps. These are available in several models: the most durable and helpful are marketed by LPGMuscle.com and are called "Haulin' Hooks." These devices engage the wrist and take most if not all of the weight off the hands. Also, to begin, use the partial weight hanging keeping your feet on a stool or lower the bar to keep your feet on the floor and simply bend you knees to partially hang. Then, be patient, but persistent. Over time the hanging will be come easier.

      Best,

      John M. Kirsch MD
      Director, The Kirsch Institute for Shoulder Research

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    2. To DLR: I forgot to comment on your question about having someone "pull" on your arm. Having another person provide the traction, or "pulling" doesn't work very well as there is a reflex resistence to the pain that is caused by the other person's involvement. It is the relaxation that occurs when you voluntarily accept a certain amount of pain or discomfort to achieve you goal. This is "empowerment." You are given the power to restore and maintain your OWN shoulder by the simple partial for full weight hanging accepting as much discomfort as you are willing to tolerate. Eventually there will be no pain with the hanging and you will find is relaxing many more parts of the body that I have written about in the book.

      JMK MD

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  27. I have had problems with a rash on my upper arm. My doctor sent me to a dermatologist. He said that I had a pinched nerve and recommended a support pillow and, if still needed, an alignment. Those rashes went away after I started using the pillow, but later a new rash on my lower arm started. Sometimes it is one arm, others both. I found that stretching my pec minor helped, but it would often come back. My library recently obtained Dr. Kirsch's book. Wow! The day after hanging for the first time, a particularly severe outbreak on both forearms lessened. It went away by the second day and hasn't been back.

    I learned the second benefit to the hanging stretch yesterday. For several years, I've had problems with nausea after driving several hours. I suspect that meant something was pulling on the Vegas Nerve as aspirin would prevent the nausea. I had eight hours of driving yesterday and didn't have problems. I attribute that to the stretching.

    Thank you for sharing this technique.

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    Replies
    1. The Fourth Edition is in the works and will astound us

      all, including me. Look for it in a couple of months.

      JMK

      Delete
  28. Dr. Kirsch,
    Just located and purchased your book on amazon. I'm recovering from surgery to fix rotator cuff tear and biceps tendon tear (competed about one year ago). I just tried hanging last night for the first time and didn't experience pain. I'll stay at and start the weights as well. I was comforted to know pullup position shouldn't bother my biceps. I have good deal of pain reaching my arms behind me, to get billfold, tuck in shirt, etc. Will the hanging and weight routine help with this over time? I've been told not to lift weights out in front of me; will this be ok in conjunction with the hanging routine?

    Thanks much for a great book attacking an all too common issue.

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  29. I have just purchased your book, and today was diagnosed with a slap tear...will the hanging help my situation..thanks.

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  30. Hi Dr. Kirsch,
    I purchased and read your book last week and everything in it makes sense. I've been hanging from a pull-up bar at the gym and the monkey bars at the park where I go jogging. I don't experience any pain while hanging but I still have pain at night when I sleep on my left side. I guess I just need to keep at it.

    I really want to get back into moderate weight training because it was helping me lose weight and tone my body.

    At the park, the monkey bars aren't high enough off the ground for me, a 5'11" male, to hang freely so I've been bending my knees so that my arms fully support my weight. Is this acceptable?

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  31. The Joint Fluid Therapy consists of a number of injections that are applied directly to your knee joints. By improving the lubrication in your knees, the pain is reduced through this therapy that replaces the lost synovial liquid that normally keeps the knees lubricated. perimeter spine and rehab reviews

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. irrelevant to Dr Kirsch's blog, and
      2. spam

      Delete
  32. I hurt my shoulder lifting equipment several months ago and bought Dr. Kirsch's book about 6 weeks ago. For the first few weeks I was noticing improvement but lately I've noticed my left shoulder starting to hurt as well as my right. Is it normal to have this happen at first?

    Also I've found there are two ways to hang.

    1. Slightly engaging the muscles of the shoulder to provide support to the joint.

    2. Fully relaxed hang. I get a deep pain beneath my shoulder blade when I do this and it feels kinda scary.

    Which is the right way to hang?

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    1. Sean,

      Probably not the answer you're looking for (and I sincerely hope you were able to progress since posting your questions) but I do understand what you mean by keeping the shoulders 'engaged' or 'active'.

      As I don't believe that Dr Kirsch mentions anywhere anything regarding keeping the shoulders active, my interpretation is that the shoulders should be completely relaxed. Indeed, another poster above (DLR Traynor) gets advice regarding whether having an exercise partner provide traction on the arm vs the mental commitment of doing it oneself. More specifically, it would appear that you might want to do your best to relax completely into it.

      Delete
  33. Dr Kirsch,

    I discovered your brachiating protocol a couple weeks back, and am curious as to how quickly/soon I should be expecting to see some progress/improvements. I suppose my concern here is the possibility that my perceptions might be tainted due to possible confirmation bias, if that makes sense...? Meaning, I want it to be true, therefore I believe it is working. (This is my own concern regarding myself, and should not be taken to be a judgement regarding anyone else's success.) Is 2 weeks too brief a period to be noticing any improvement?

    Here's a bit more background:

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    1. 1. I got your book (Kindle version) as soon as I had that "this makes sense, I need to know more" moment. I already have lifting hooks (not the Haulin' Hooks, but another very robust brand). Within 1-2 days I started hanging for no less than 3 minutes at a time. I would do this first thing in the morning, last thing before bedtime, and at least once more during the day (I work from home). After reading other stories online (eg, other respondents above), I'm starting to wonder whether I should be doing multiple reps (eg, 8-10), each rep lasting about 30 secs in duration? I'm also unclear on how long to rest between hangs, eg, wait 30 secs, wait a couple minutes, or "as soon as you feel ready, go", or what?

      Delete
    2. 2. I'm 53, male, 155#, and have a fairly active lifestyle. I've been doing Aikido for almost 8 years, which involves a lot of wrist/elbow/shoulder joint locks, as well as being able to roll forward/backward smoothly. I'd also been active at the gym for many years; 9 months ago I started CrossFit, and progress has gone quite well (I'm probably as surprised at this as anyone). I can say without hesitation that my mobility (ankle, knee, hip, thoracic, shoulder) has improved as well, no doubt at least in part due to the myriad mobility exercises we do post-workout. In my case, I spend a lot of time doing mobility exercises which relate to the shoulders; the motivation for this is partly due to proactively wanting to get rid of the shoulder pain. Very soon after starting CrossFit, an old shoulder injury on my left side (from circa 1998) flared up. Within a couple weeks, my 'good' shoulder on the right side started exhibiting those symptoms which my left side was very well acquainted with. I spent some weeks going for ART treatments; some visits really seemed to help, other visits not so much, but overall it seemed like I just wasn't getting resolution. So I stopped ART and tried acupuncture. The acupuncturist would do various shoulder/back manipulation (which I would call the "taffy pull"), but after 8-9 weeks of this, I didn't feel I was making any progress, so I discontinued the treatment. One interesting tidbit was that he insisted I have a place to do 'hangs', and suggested I get one of those doorway chin-up bars, spending up to 2 mins hanging every morning and evening. I did buy the chin-up rig, but as he never provided any sort of explanation for doing this, I wasn't terribly motivated to stick with it. It's funny that months later I learn of your brachiating protocol which DOES explain the theory as to why this should help. Could my active lifestyle be hindering the progress resulting from brachating? I don't have any major complaints when doing something like the push press, or handstand pushups, but the movement which seems to trigger pain is the simple pushup.

      Delete
    3. 3. Due to the old injury to the left shoulder (and the fact that the symptoms have lingered on for so long), in the summer of 2012 I finally took the referral from my family physician and went to the referred shoulder reconstruction specialist. Tried doing NSAIDs and cryotherapy for a couple weeks. Tried a cortisone shot (no effect that I could tell). Had an MRI which confirmed his diagnosis of impingement (and nothing more). He said the next step, should I want to do it, was "... cut a couple of small ligaments and shave the underside of the acromion", which I've since learned is the SAD procedure. He wasn't pushing for me to do the surgery, and I was reluctant to do it out of concern for weakening the integrity, forcing me to give up activities such as Aikido. As recently as 3-4 weeks ago, I was thinking that perhaps I should seriously consider SAD as a resolution to this. That was before discovering your brachiating protocol.

      Delete
    4. 4. In case it's relevant: I can usually fall asleep on one side or the other, but whenever I wake up, I find that at least one shoulder (these days, typically the right shoulder) will be stiff and in pain, or at least in pain if I try to move my arm. I also find that often when I wake up during the night, my right arm is in the overhead/brachiating position (elbow is bent, forearm is on the pillow between my head and the headboard), and this position always seems to be pain-free, at least until I try to bring my arm down by my side. Both shoulders seem to be in at least a bit of pain and stiff after a full night's sleep; it seems that standing up or sitting up and letting gravity pull down on my arms/shoulders helps to clear that pain/stiffness after, say, 5-10 mins.

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    5. Long story short: Is 2 weeks of daily brachiating too soon to be able to feel improvements?

      Delete
  34. Hi Dr. Kirsch,

    I am in a dire situation. I'm a medical student who planned on becoming an orthopaedic surgeon until I injured my right shoulder in my third year. My initial pain healed after a few months, but what remained was a dull ache in my scalene/1st rib area and vague coldness/numbness around my bicep and ulnar distribution of my hand.

    After seeing multiple orthopaedic surgeons without an answer, it was decided by a shoulder/sports specialist that I have neurological Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. My vasculature is unaffected by this - I only have nerve compression.

    I purchased your book and wondered if it would help my condition. Would hanging benefit my condition? Does hanging help open up the thoracic outlet by perhaps relieving tension on the pectoralis minor, lats, etc thus alleviating some of the downward forces of my clavicle?

    I've given up my dreams of becoming an orthopaedic surgeon and am pursuing another specialty because my pain is just too much to stomach a surgical residency. Any advice would be appreciated.

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    Replies
    1. The hanging method will not solve your thoracic outlet syndrome. I suggest you follow the advice of your orthopedic surgeon.

      Best Regards,

      John M. Kirsch MD

      Delete
  35. Dr. Kirsch: A friend recommended your book, but he had a partial tear and it helped. I had an MRI and show a full thickness (large tear) in my rotator cuff and it is all the way retracted like a shade retracting according to my ortho dr. Will the hanging method help a full thicknes large tear and not cause more damage? I really want to try your method if it is safe for my condition. I am in PT now, but still hurting. Please answer asap so I can start hanging if it is okay. Thank you.

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    Replies
    1. Jackie,
      The hanging method will not cause more damage to your shoulder, but will not heal your rotator cuff tear. I suggest that you follow the advice of your orthopedic surgeon.

      Best Regards,

      John M. Kirsch MD

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  36. Dr. Kirsch, thank you for your reply above. My ortho dr. does not know if the surgery for the full thickness tear in the rotator cuff will help much - maybe relieve some of the pain a little, but not heal it. If the hanging method will alleviate some of the pain I would rather try it first. Do you think that is possible? I am 75 years old and surgery does not seem to work this well at this age from what I read on the internet. Can you give me some hope that hanging will strenghten the other muscles so it doesn't hurt so much or will it help? Please answer asap and thank you in advance for your attention. Sincerely, Jackie A.

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  37. Dr. Kirsch, I was diagnosed with a right impinged shoulder based on symptoms and limited range of motion with pain. The ortho did not do an MRI yet. He gave me one steroid injection and I did some stretching and light weight exercises as recommended by PT. with great results--no pain and complete range of motion restored. It seems I have re-injured myself during a packing and moving experience. I have all the pain back around the scapula, deltoid and down the upper arm a bit. I have also noticed that my Rt scapula wings out somewhat and does not articulate the same way my Lt scapula does at the end of an upward armswing. It just kind of angles down and out, not hugging my thorax. I tried the hanging on Monday with my knees bent, not hanging from full body weight. I hung for 30 seconds 6 times. Then I hung Wednesday for 40-60 seconds for 6-8 times twice that day and may have added more body weight .It is not painful at all while I am hanging. I do feel a huge stretch under my right arm inside the joint and it feels really good. The problem is that a later Wednesday and the next day, my shoulder pain flared up big time. I had to apply ice to my Rt shoulder in the middle of the night to calm the pain down. Could I have overstretched and maybe need to to cut back on the hanging? I should mention that I am limiting my activities to walking and light housework. No lifting other than what one does in a normal day and trying to limit overhead reaching. Thank you for you advice. Best regards, Sherry M.

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  38. Dr. Kirsch, I am 7 weeks post-op for a small tear in the rotator cuff, frozen shoulder due to injury (broken humerus head), and repair of tendon. I am now experiencing more pain and the doctor says that I may be getting frozen shoulder again as he had to manipulate it prior to surgery to release it. That said, would it be too soon to start the hanging exercise or could this jeopardize the tendon repair? Thanks for you response.
    Sandi

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  39. Dr Kirsch, I have shoulder pain only when my arm is moved in certain positions. An MRI done showed a small rotator cuff tear and a bone cyst. I am scheduled for surgery next week but just found your site. Would hanging help or would you advise proceeding with the surgery?

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  40. Hi Dr. Kirsch,
    I have a labrum tear in my right shoulder that is causing me moderate pain. Would your hanging exercises help me?

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  41. Dr. Kirsch, I just finished your 4th edition, and am wondering if your hanging exercise will help cure the tendonitis in my left shoulder? Thank you. John

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  42. Hello
    Be careful with this.I was diagnosed a few years ago with impingement syndrome on my right shoulder with main symptoms being pain in upper arm in certain positions. After some physiotherapy it get better, then I went swimming and bump! my left shoulder. Again the MRI showed impingement.This one with time get to no pain (I had a sharp pain while swimming) but the right one was just Ok. A few weeks ago I got worst of the right arm (no pain in shoulder) and I bumped in this technic: the hanging bar. I read a lot of good reviews, almost all good reviews, and in desperation I gave it a try. Well after a few days I started to have some mild pain on my shoulders but thought this was normal. Then about a week after, in the middle of the hanging a sharp pain started on my right chest and I knew I was in trouble. Now after one week of hanging ( and stopping of course ) I got pain in my right shoulder when I woke up, something I never had, and my left arm is again with the pain like after swimming (this pain happens when raising my left arm lateral with weight, and it goes from the arm to the chest). Also of course can´t raise much weight because pain comes from a lot of places.
    I just want to alert people of the danger of doing something like this. I can´t believe I did it. How stupid of me. Maybe for some it works, but it´s a very violent thing to try and then we will see... If you do it, please do it with support first then gradually go to full hanging. Stop at any sign of pain or disconfort! I hope I can get better. But I´m back 2 or 3 years back in a week...

    Regards

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  43. Just came upon this site. I am a 53 year old male who underwent labrum repair 10 years ago and it did not go well. Admittedly, I also have pretty severe wear and tear at both the glenoid and the humerus but prior to surgery this was not that much of an issue. After the surgery, I never regained much range of motion - not overhead, to the side, internal nor external rotation. The surgeon at the time said it was because of the arthritis in my shoulder, but prior to surgery I had my ROM measured at 95% - not really that bad.

    I have been to two surgeons and both suggested total replacement, which I will not do unless the pain becomes unbearable. I recently (3 months back) had two stem cell treatments, and while it did not help ROM, it did help residual pain quite a bit.

    I still work out, though I am compromised, but my pain generally comes at the point of extension (arms straightening) and is pretty much non existent at the bottom (hand brought toward chest while prone).

    For someone like me, do you think the exercises in the book will help?

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  44. Will brachiation help with a previously repaired SLAP tear that was re-injured? I am not interested in surgery again.

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  45. After a separated shoulder 10 years ago I've struggled with shoulder, elbow and anterior deltoid issues. I bought the book, read it, and started hanging before my 2x/week workout. Not only am I believer, but my trainer can vouch for the improvement! I am VERY impressed and would encourage anyone with impingement issues to try it. I can now reach overhead with NO pain!

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  46. I have severe bursitis and tendonitis in my right shoulder will your exercise and weight lifting resolve my pain will really appreciate if you can reply as a yes or no

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  47. Dear Dr. Kirsch: I am already three weeks into hanging and the 3 dumbbell exercises recommended in your book. Two questions please:
    1. What is the optimum width for hands while gripping the hanging bar - about shoulder width, a little wider, or a little less than shouder width?
    2. The palms down position for the three dumbbell exercises: would they not internall rotate the shoulder joint and cause further impingement? Wouldn't the palms facing each other grip be safer?
    Many thanks for your time

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    Replies
    1. I'm with you on the position of the hands and shoulders for lifting the weights. Everything I've learned about that tells me that you need to externally rotate the arm so that the head of the arm-bone clears the acromion when taking the arms up. It seems to me that common sense would dictate hanging as Dr. Kirsch says to re-model the acromion but to do the weights with good anatomical position (external rather than internal rotation) so as not to make the impingement worse.

      Delete
  48. Hello Dr. Kirsch.

    I bought your book from Amazon and I think it's great. I'm only two days into the hanging and dumbbells. I do six sets of 30 seconds followed by the dumbbells. I don't hang with my full body weight because it gets too painful in my left shoulder, I would say I hang with about 70 - 80 % body weight. I try to hang with a little more each time. It hurts just like you said it would but I won't let that stop me. Am I going about it the right way ? And, after doing the hanging and dumbbells I have a slight nagging pain in my left shoulder, is this a normal process of doing these exercises ?

    Thanks Dr. Kirsch.

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  49. Can hanging put too much stress on the AC joint if you hang too much too often too soon? I have AC joint issue now. Never before. But only after a few months of hanging. I didn't think I was doing too much. But maybe I did. How does hanging effect the AC joint? . Tnx

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  50. There are quite a few of us not getting answers to our questions on here. It's a shame really because we need to know if we are going about it the right way. Some are posting about having a little pain after doing the hanging, and pain in parts of the shoulders when putting their arms in certain positions that they didn't didn't have before they started hanging.

    For you guys that have been doing the hanging for quite some time. Did you have the exact same pains after hanging that us newbies have ? Do the after pains eventually go away ? We really need your feedback guys.

    Thanks.

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    Replies
    1. I agree - we need answers.

      Delete
    2. Hi Anonymous (January 14, 2015 at 2:08)

      I am no doctor or expert, only a self-helper like you. I have been into the hanging and dumbbell exercises about 3 months now. I think this regimen is helping my shoulders - though not as much as I would have liked. Fortunately, these exercises have created absolutely no new problem. For me the hanging was not too difficult even to begin with and never painful. The only limitation to the amount of time I can hang is set by my hands: after 20-30 seconds, the hands cannot maintain the grip. I do 5-6 sets of hanging, about 20-30 seconds per hanging. If you are experiencing new symptoms after hanging, I'd suggest you get your shoulders checked out by an orthopedics specialist. My commonsense - and Dr Kirsch's scientific explanation - tells me that hanging is safe and natural, and therefore potentially beneficial. But if I develop any new symptom, I'd discontinue.

      Delete
    3. The last time this guy replied to anyone here was well over a year ago. I'm guessing he's not around anymore.Or something's happened. No-one can be that rude unless they're now doubting the veracity of their own work.

      Delete
    4. The last time this guy replied to anyone here was well over a year ago. I'm guessing he's not around anymore.Or something's happened. No-one can be that rude unless they're now doubting the veracity of their own work.

      Delete
    5. The photos of the author show him as an older man many many years ago. It could be he is unable to participate much now. This technique has helped us a lot. I hope you find relief with it.

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    6. So did you continue hanging even when getting pain after the hanging session? What were the results? Did you develop a new set of symptoms or did your shoulder problems diminish? I started hanging yesterday, so the sooner I get informed the bette, before I incur any more damage?

      Delete
  51. Thanks for your reply Anonymous. I'm glad that the hanging is working for you. You say that you didn't get any pain when you first started to hang ? Maybe you have a more milder form of a shoulder problem.

    When I started hanging at first I couldn't hang with full body weight at all, the pain in my left shoulder was too much. It must have taken me one or two weeks before I could hang with full weight, maybe I rushed into hanging at full weight to quick and that's why I got more pain with new pains. I was only hanging for 20 - 30 seconds the same as you. I have started to hang again, but not with all the body weight. This time I am going to give it a lot longer and see where that takes me. I would like to hear from any guys that had pain from the start and are much better / painless now. Thanks.



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  52. In his book, Dr, Kirsch states " Most persons will have a fair amount of pain or discomfort when first attempting to hang. The exercise is in this sens counter-intuitive, or paradoxical: paradoxically, the pain experienced while hanging from a bar will not injure the shoulder, but must be accepted to overcome the contracture of the CA arch and stiffness of the scapular restraints. If you do not have pain while hanging, the exercise is still important to prevent contracture of the CA arch!".

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  53. Can someone outline the major differences between the 4th edition on Kindle and the paperback version (2nd edition)?

    I don't have Kindle and am stuck with the paperback version, if I get this book. Not sure whether it's worth getting the paperback version. Wish there was some other format available other than Kindle.

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    Replies
    1. Both editions are the same as far as I can tell.

      Delete
  54. Hello Dr. Kirsch, I certainly hope you are well. No way to know since you haven't responded to questions in this blog for a while. I would be good to know if you are still active and if you have done any further research on this protocol.

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  55. This works. In Dec 2013 I could not sleep through the night for shoulder pain. I was diagnosed with Arthritis, Bursitis and a slight rotator cuff tear. I got a Shot in my shoulder and was sent to therapy. Fine, but I fell off the wagon and the pain started coming back. I started the exercises they had given me again, none of which involved hanging.

    I had made the transition to minimalist flat shoes and improving alignment - knees were loving it. So I decided to look for something to help return my arms to natural alignment as I had with my feet and knees. This book seemed very promising - made a lot of sense. It was slightly painful when I started February of 2015 and I had second thoughts. I kept hangs short and got hooks to make it easier. Soon it was not hurting at all and eventually it started to feel really good to just hang.
    I no longer have shoulder pain. I can reach behind and up, over, out no pain. This protocol works. I now do half my hangs with hooks and half without. Bless this man for sharing this.

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  56. Excellent read, I just passed this onto a colleague who was doing a little research on that.
    Cancer Pain Management Frankfort

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  57. I am eager to hang, to try this out. But my problem is I have a serious impingement and can't lift my arm overhead to even touch the bar without major pain. I've been trying to work up to it, but several weeks have passed, and while I'm getting close, it hurts like hell and I can't even imagine putting any weight on it.

    My question to those of you who have had success with this - how did you get to the point where you could even try to hang? Did it hurt like hell and you just pushed through it, or did you wait a very long time going slowly? I'm wondering if I'm supposed to just bite the bullet, grit my teeth, and hang no matter how much it hurts?

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    1. "Hurts like hell" is a good description :p In the book he says if one is able to lift their arm straight out horizontally with strength the program should be successful. I just read the book and started last week. At first I just stood there with my hands on the bar and could barely allow much of my weight to pull. I reminded myself that I was stretching my shoulder anatomy and would eventually be reshaping the opening/space for my rotator cuff tendons - and keeping the shoulders RELAXED. Very painful at first, and each day the first hanging is the most painful but it's getting easier. I am amazed how quickly I am experiencing relief. This week I was able to put full weight on the bar for 10 sec off and on for 15 min sessions. I'm having fewer and fewer episodes during the day with the sharp pain when moving my arm. I'm going to keep with it.

      Delete
    2. The pain should be a bell curv. Sharp up then leaveling off then back down. Maybe not all the way down right away. But,as long as the pain subsides when you let go, you are not causing damage. Then it is a matter of how much pain can you take.

      Delete
  58. Hello, did anyone try just hanging without the three recommended exercises .? How many times a day u did the hanging ,right after hanging I did the typical rottator cuff exercise with Thera bands .

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    Replies
    1. Not sure about not doing the exercises but I have been hanging once a day in the morning 10 sec on and off for 15 min sessions and seeing improvement He recommends doing the light weight exercises immediately after hanging because the CA arch is more open then.

      Delete
  59. Hello, did anyone try just hanging without the three recommended exercises .? How many times a day u did the hanging ,right after hanging I did the typical rottator cuff exercise with Thera bands .

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  60. Is this blog still active, no new post no response from anybody .?

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  61. Last I heard from Mrs. Kirsch, Dr. Kirsch's health is too poor for him to take an active role here anymore. I am one of the contributor authors for his 4th edition but I am not a doctor, only a very satisfied reader (I wrote the chapter on the consumer guide to hanging equipment). Ask any questions you want, other satisfied readers or myself might be able to help you.

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    Replies
    1. Hi marti124. Can you please let me know if this can be performed by people with minor labral tears or rotator cuff tears.

      Delete
  62. "Hurts like hell" is a good description :p In the book he says if one is able to lift their arm straight out horizontally with strength the program should be successful. I just read the book and started last week. At first I just stood there with my hands on the bar and could barely allow much of my weight to pull. I reminded myself that I was my shoulder anatomy and would eventually be reshaping the opening/space for my rotator cuff tendons - keeping the shoulders RELAXED. Very painful at first, and each day the first hanging is the most painful but it's getting easier. I am amazed how quickly I am experiencing relief. This week I was able to put full weight on the bar for 10 sec on and off for 15 min sessions. I'm having fewer and fewer episodes during the day with the sharp pain when aducting my arm out. I'm going to keep with it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ^^^ supposed to read "...I reminded myself I was STRETCHING my shoulder anatomy"

      Delete
    2. Oops! That reply was supposed to be attached to a question above,... I reposted in the correct place,.

      Delete
  63. I've been hanging for about 3 weeks now and it seems to be helping, but In the quest to relieve my shoulder impingement I have found that besides learning what to do, it's probably more important to learn what not to do. I have amended my workouts to eliminate any positions that will inflame my shoulder anymore than it already is so I'm wondering if it would be better for the shoulders when hanging if I did it with my thumbs facing towards me instead of facing in towards each other?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The book says facing twards eachother.

      Delete
    2. Thank you, I loaned my new book to my friend across the street that has also been going to doctors and therapists for his shoulders. He's had it longer than I did!

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  64. I have been trying the hanging exercise now for a week and I believe my shoulder is improving. Just a general question that maybe someone knows the answer too. What are Dr. Kirsch's thoughts on doing pull ups after the shoulder is strong again?

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    Replies
    1. Norman,
      I started back doing front pulldowns which are the same as pullups just less weight. I use one of those metal v-shaped grips on my BowFlex machine so my thumbs are facing towards me and I have no problems. I wouldn't start off doing pullups with full body weight though, make sure to do them overhand if you do would be my suggestion.

      Delete
  65. Hi - I've been diagnosed with a SLAP tear to my right labrum and I'd like to avoid surgery at all costs. Would you recommend this technique for someone with my injury? I also have a few degenerative disks in my lower back that I've had decompression work done on through a chiro. I'm hoping to kill two birds with one stone here as I've heard this is also a great technique for decompressing your back. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this as I've purchased Dr. Kirsch's book but nothing in there specifically speaks to my labrum injury. Thanks!

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  66. Dear Dr Kirsch,

    I just wanted to know if your hanging bar's trick could fix shoulder's bursitis (mine is apparently quite mild) ?

    Thanks for your brilliant thoughts

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  67. Hi, I am one of the contributing chapter authors in Dr. Kirsch's 4th edition. Dr. Kirsch is along in age now and is unable to attend to this web page much. I asked his wife how to respond to your question and she told me to state this: "John said just say yes! He can hang with bursitis."

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  68. Marti124,

    I thank your for asking Dr Kirsch via his wife.

    So i will give a try to hanging (i've also ordered the book) and I wish the best for Doctor Kirsch

    Best regards

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  69. I'm just looking for some confirmation and a little experience if anyone can offer. I'd been diagnosed with shoulder impingement. I'm 43 and in fairly good shape. I think it stems from years and years of baseball. Before I came across Dr. Kirsch's book, I had seen a doctor and received two injections (a month a part). I thought the shots had cured me until about 6 weeks after the second shot. I assume the medicine just wore off. I came across the book about then and started hanging. I've been at it fairly religiously for about 6 weeks now. Most days I get 5-7 minutes in the morning and 5-7 minutes before bed. I have definitely noticed improvement. My range of motion is much better and the sharp pains I used to feel when I moved too far in one direction have turned more into a less intense, more subdued, different kind of pain. The pain is now more focused towards the front of my shoulder joint and somewhat down the front of my arm, almost in the muscle. It's just different from the original pain. I am happy with the progress that has been made but feel like I have somewhat plateaued in the last couple of weeks. It still hurts when I start hanging but eventually fades and I definitely feel better after the exercises. But the plateauing has me concerned, especially when others seem to be "cured" in a couple of weeks. I plan on keeping on, I kind of enjoy it. I was just hoping to get other's thoughts to see if they had similar experiences before breaking through to the next level of relief. Thanks for anything anyone can offer.

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    Replies
    1. The book said it can take weeks for some, years for others. Are you also doing the weight lifting after hanging? That might make a big difference going forward.

      Delete
    2. Hey, how has it been going for you? Are you healed and if yes, after how much time? Did you persist in hanging? How long did you stop working out i.e. weight lifting?

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    3. Hey, how has it been going for you? Are you healed and if yes, after how much time? Did you persist in hanging?

      Delete
  70. I think it is important for everyone to understand that the human body is on it's own time schedule. Patience and Persistence is the key to success in anything we do

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  71. May 31- MRI came back with full tear of supraspinatus rotator cuff. Read about Dr. Kirsch's protocol on the intranet, and then decided to order the book. Book came a few days ago. 62 years old, out of shape and overweight, but I am determined to get my shoulders better.
    Day 1 - worked up to hanging about 45 sec at a time, could only do 5 reps with 2 1/2 lb for the side lifting exercise, finished off the 20 reps without weight. Forward weight exercise was able to get 10 reps with 2 1/2 lb finished off 20 reps with no weight. The extension (bowler's exercise) 20 reps with 6 lbs. Shoulders pretty week.
    I plan on doing the routine twice daily

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  72. I suffered slap 2 lesion while hanging on ring 20 years ago , actually posterolateral shoulder pain with push-up, I only do thrower ten and rowing exercises not overhead, neither bench press or chin up, could I benefit from this hanging therapy

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  73. I hang when not on my annual 7 week hike 3 times a week for 3 minutes at a time using my hanging ("hauling hooks") gloves plus I use a personal trainer certified in corrective exercise training to provide optimal shoulder health (plus optimal overall health).

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  74. Hello I purchased the book. But my question is will hanging for a longer time per day expedite the process of reshaping the shoulder and what is the max time hanging per day recommended? Thank You

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  75. Dr. Kirsch is on in his senior years and does not post here hardly at all anymore. I am one of the contributing authors of his book (the equipment review chapter) and am not medically trained. But during my own reshaping years I hanged daily for a single 4 minute session using the Haulin Hooks (Hanging onlys) gloves I reviewed in my chapter. After 2 years I maintain hanging 3 times a week for 3 minutes each hanging day.

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    Replies
    1. Hello marti124! Im a physiotherapy student from Sweden. I have read Dr Kirsch book and I´m interested in write a work in school about hanging as a treatment for shoulder problems. Is there any way i can get in contact with Dr Kirsch or anyone that knows more about the study he have done in this subject?

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  76. Hurt my shoulder lifting weights, probably impingement. Started hanging a few times a day about a week ago, it seems to be helping. So glad to have finally found something that works !

    Thanks Dr. Kirsch !

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  77. Hi Dr.Kirsch,

    I had a humerus fracture 5 weeks ago, I am currently doing passive range of motion exercises, but there is a lot of pinching and I can't lift my arm much. I understand my bones will not be strong enough to start these exercises now of course, but how soon can I start? 12 weeks? 6 months? How do I find out? Do I need a 'clearance' from my surgeon? Thank you

    p.s. i was scared to feel my bones rub, click and pinch in the joint, but now I have hope, that there is something I will be able to do...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dr. Kirsch is on in his senior years and does not post here hardly at all anymore. I am one of the contributing authors of his book (the equipment review chapter) and am not medically trained. But during my own reshaping years I hanged daily for a single 4 minute session using the Haulin Hooks (Hanging onlys) gloves I reviewed in my chapter. After 2 years I maintain hanging 3 times a week for 3 minutes each hanging day.

      But I was as nervous as you at first, I read all the reviews (and comments) on Amazon and on this page before starting the exercises. Doing that assured me that the only negatives involved editorial issues (eg, so-n-so did not want the medical stuff taught, or so-n-so wanted the book condensed to a magazine article) but that aside from one person who just did not like hanging, the others stated it helped or at least did no harm to them, but nearly all appreciated the exercise. My first day, I could only do a partial hang for a few seconds. After two months, I was able to hang for 3 minutes at a time (with the gloves I mention). Be sure and have a safe stool to stand on, like a plyometric box I review in the chapter (I presume you have Dr. Kirsch's 4th edition) so you can safely get off the bar when done and the stool will not tip over while you are on the bar. Start out with nearly all of your weight on the ground or on the stool and let your own body tell you if it is too much for you; you are in control of the exercise. If it is painful my advice (again I am not medically trained) is to stop, do something easier. You don't need to even have your arms straight up at first. Go at it gradual, safely, and pain-free. You be the judge. That is how I did it (I had a frozen right shoulder and a bone spur to deal with). I have given a copy of the book to two of my doctors and funny, they both had shoulder problems that the book solved for them and they started giving copies of the book away to others. Your results may differ with your doctor.

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  78. Olga,

    I would wait to allow any body weight in the hanging until your surgeon clears it. At least until the surgeon says it’s okay to bear weight on it.

    When you are cleared to do so, start out with just passively placing your hand on the bar without body weight to help prepare the soft tissue.

    I’m NOT a physician, but work in the health field and I’ve seen these types of fractures and (unlike other types) the healing process can vary greatly.

    Until your follow up exams show a full healing it’s best to wait (as you said) so that you can start this treatment with confidence knowing your fracture is healed. I hope that will happen soon!

    Wishing you a speedy and full recovery :)

    -Darlene

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  79. Will hanging help with bicep tendonitis caused rounded shoulders? If so would I need to wait for the pain to subside before trying it?

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    1. Oh goody! Someone with the same problem and concern. Have you got any reply yet? Can you share that with me please?

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. Make that 3 of us with this question. Will biceps tendonitis be benefitted by hanging?!

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    4. Hi Mathew, in my case, I avoided the hangs until I felt that the inflammation got down. This took 2 months, during which I stuck to isometrics and theraband external rotators strengthening excercises. I highly suggest 2 weeks of giving your shoulder complete rest (I know, it's a pain but don't worry, you won't lose muscle during this short time and it will do you good. Trust me.) After these 2 weeks of complete rest, I started theraband excercises below 90 degrees (targeting the lower traps and external rotators) for a month, and after that I started theraband excercises above 90 degrees with occasional hanging. A month later I started doing planks in PROPER form (i.e. pushing away from the ground while pressing the shoulders away from my ears) to strengthen the stabilizor muscles in the upper back. 2 weeks later I started with handstands (again pushing awayyyy from the ground) and scapular pullups.
      It takes patience but believe me, these 2 weeks' rest were worth it.

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    5. Lea, Thank you for taking the time to address my question. I'm glad you're doing well!

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  80. Speaking strictly as another patient of the same dx. I would try getting used to having my arms up on the bar with my feet on the floor first. It will be painful but if you keep at it if should get easier as you go. This can also help break up inflammation/adhesions. Add a little weight each day, if it doesn’t start feeling better after a few consecutive days then hold off. Maybe get some imaging (X-ray and MRI) if you haven’t already. Follow the instructions in the book. It works for most shoulder issues.

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    1. Thanks for the quick reply. I know my posture is an issue and hanging will help it but I wasn't sure whether introducing it with an existing injury was a good idea.

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    2. You’re welcome. From what I understand and experience, as long as it’s not a new injury in the process of healing, hanging is great for most chronic shoulder issues. I hope you see some improvement soon.

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  81. I have pain in both biceps. The surgeon diagnosed it asrotator cuff tendinits/bursitis. AK impingement. I bought the book and after 3 weeks of hanging my pain is a little worse not better. Should hanging be working for me? I should add that the pain seems to lessen immediately after the hanging but then returns in a few hours.

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    1. Any luck here Kuch? I'm interested in your situation!

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  82. Hello, a fellow patient here... When do you get the pain in the biceps the most ...with certain activity? Any pain in your shoulder joint as well? What type of imaging has been done on your shoulders? A complete shoulder X-ray (with an “outlet view” could be helpful) or an MRI? It may be good to know if you have any bony abnormalities, just in case. If not, and you are hanging correctly and passively as the book describes, it could be related to inflammation. There are several things you can do to help with that (not in the book) Also, make sure it’s not pain radiating from your neck, a pinched nerve can affect certain places in the arms, depending on what level is affected. I hope you’re feeling better soon.

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    1. pain occurs in the middle of the bicep when I reach out to pour out a beer can. not much pain in the shoulder. surgeon did a complete xray and it was his diagnosis. Chiro contends it is the neck but 2 visits have done nothing to help it.

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  83. Might be good to get the neck evaluated/imaged if doesn't improve soon.

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  84. Dear Dr Kirsch

    Thank you so much for your book, "Shoulder Pain? The Solution and Prevention". I heard about it on YouTube and saw a number of videos describing what you suggest in your book. Intuitively I immediately recognised it as correct so bought the book on Amazon. The book has arrived and I have now started doing as you suggest and my shoulder is already much better. Thank you so much - it will make a massive difference to my life. Immeasurable difference.

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  85. So passive hanging should work for biceps tendonosis? I have had chronic anterior shoulder pain for the past 3 months due to overstretching the tendon in sport using my body weight while holding onto a pole with the shoulder internally rotated.

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  86. I posted this 6 months ago, and should post it again. Here goes.

    Dr. Kirsch is on in his senior years and does not post here hardly at all anymore. I am one of the contributing authors of his book (the equipment review chapter) and am not medically trained. But during my own reshaping years I hanged daily for a single 4 minute session using the Haulin Hooks (Hanging onlys) gloves I reviewed in my chapter. After 2 years I maintain hanging 3 times a week for 3 minutes each hanging day.

    But I was as nervous as you at first, I read all the reviews (and comments) on Amazon and on this page before starting the exercises. Doing that assured me that the only negatives involved editorial issues (eg, so-n-so did not want the medical stuff taught, or so-n-so wanted the book condensed to a magazine article) but that aside from one person who just did not like hanging, the others stated it helped or at least did no harm to them, but nearly all appreciated the exercise. My first day, I could only do a partial hang for a few seconds. After two months, I was able to hang for 3 minutes at a time (with the gloves I mention). Be sure and have a safe stool to stand on, like a plyometric box I review in the chapter (I presume you have Dr. Kirsch's 4th edition) so you can safely get off the bar when done and the stool will not tip over while you are on the bar. Start out with nearly all of your weight on the ground or on the stool and let your own body tell you if it is too much for you; you are in control of the exercise. If it is painful my advice (again I am not medically trained) is to stop, do something easier. You don't need to even have your arms straight up at first. Go at it gradual, safely, and pain-free. You be the judge. That is how I did it (I had a frozen right shoulder and a bone spur to deal with). I have given a copy of the book to two of my doctors and funny, they both had shoulder problems that the book solved for them and they started giving copies of the book away to others. Your results may differ with your doctor.

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    1. Could you, for the sake of this poor soul, tell me how long it takes for brachiating to actually result in remodeling the bone? I assume high frequency... 2-3x a day for a 2-4 minutes per session.

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  87. During the hang, I feel great. Once I get out (feet first placed on the ground or chair), I take away my arms and lower them very slowly. As I do so, I feel a little dull pain along with discomfort on the anterior part. Seconds after, when I try raising my arm to the front or side, my arm feels heavy, tight, and a little painful (endurable pain). Does that mean I should stop hanging? I've been having impingement in the anterior part of the shoulder for 3.5 months now. I read Dr. John Kirsch's book. It warns that the hanging will hurt. I hurt even after I hang, but not throbbingly. It's just that the area seems to have been irrtated and becomes all too sensistive. My MRIs show no tears. Just impingment and edema around the labrum. My belief is that the biceps tendon is degenerating(because my pain is on the anterior part of the shoulder).

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    1. I have a few concerns here:

      1- The website www.kirschshoulder.com is no longer available and seems to have been turned into a facebook page, where I have not succeeded to find the scientific presentations and papers related to your studies of hanging.

      2- Have there been studies comparing the subjects' subacromial space before and after their months or years of hanging? I think such a comparison would give your protocol a stronger stand in the orthopedic community.

      3- Hanging stretches the long head of the biceps. In the case where the LHB is frayed or in a state if tendinosis, can stretching have a detrimental effect on the collagen alignment? Was this taken into consideration in your studies?

      Thank you and best regards,

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  88. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  89. Hello, since Dr. Kirsch not available recently to answer questions, you could try asking other professionals that use this method in their practice. There are several physical therapists (also certified trainers/coaches) that promote this hanging method. If you can not see one in person, many of them answer questions online (YouTube). I can say that I used to have a lot of shoulder pain (anterior and posterior). Hanging has helped my shoulders all around, including my biceps tendons. That and reducing systemic inflammation. Also, you could try a hands on therapist to see if they can help or determine if you have a fascia (collagen?) issue. Then try hanging afterwards if that seems safer for you.

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  90. on the advice of my physical therapist, I quit the hanging months ago. I continue to have the pain from the impingement. I wish I could find a PT in AZ who had familiarity with the Kirsch technique.

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    1. Work on strengthening your back muscles. Do face pulls and butterflies using therabands.

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    2. Once your pain becomes mild (meaning the inflammation goes down), start hanging. Learn to create more subacromial space by positioning your arms in a way that your humerous pushes away from the acromium. This is different for different arm positions. Once your muscles learn that, they will automatically do that for every movement. Look for a good physiotherapist who really knows these details. Sadly, not all of them know why they do what they do.

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    3. Kuch, I'd be interested to know if, around the time you quit hanging, you were still, as you said before and I quote: " I should add that the pain seems to lessen immediately after the hanging but then returns in a few hours.".

      I'd be interested to know if you were still getting temporary relief out of hanging. If so, you might guess that the hanging was beneficial, and pain was from something else (activity). It's a hard call. Since the supraspinatus is not compressed during a hang, both in CT scans, and also in your own experience (as is evidenced by temporary improvement), I cannot imagine why you'd feel worse unless it were from a stimuli other than hanging.

      Final thought: After stopping hanging, did you notice a remarkable improvement in symptoms? How long a time period did you hang?

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